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Kingdom of Northshield - Ducere Ministrare Illuminare

Minutes from 12-09-01 - Boar's Head

Stallari Council Meeting

December 9, AS XXXVI

Barony of Caer Anterth Mawr

In Attendance: HSH Gaius Niklos Luctator (J.W. Walls), HSH Aramanthra the Vicious (Nancy Read), HE Kitakaze Tatsu Raito (Neil Gilmore) Lord Heir Northshield, HE Elashava bat Riva (Susan Gilbert) Lady Heir Northshield, THL Lewina of Sussex (Lauretta Wenger) Principality Seneschal, Lord Alasdair Calum Montgomery (Jack Welsh) Polaris Herald, Vladimir Volcovich Syehvrnielesov (Harry Kahan) incoming Principality Earl Marshal, Lady Tatiana Marana Melville (Tonia Heng) Principality Chirurgeon, THL Moira McVey (Mary Kay Roberts) Principality Exchequer, Fiona nic Aoidh (Lorine Horvath) Principality MOA&S, and Lady Ravenna ingen A.eda (Robyn Quandt) Principality Chronicler,

Minutes by Baroness Marisela the Vintner, (Barb Coenen), Stallari Council Secretary

I. Minutes . The November minutes were moved, seconded and approved.

II. Old Business

A. Information Officer - tabled

III. New Business

A. Policies . tabled. Lewina: The only thing that doesn.t need to be gone over is the financial policy. Discussion of policy vs. law with the note that policy is more flexible.

B. Niklos: wants every officer to start looking for a successor, even those who are just stepping up. He also wants the officer to start working with them now.

C. Northwatch reports should include job descriptions and what the officers under them should do.


A. Persephone.s Circle

1. Aramanthra: We want to change the badge for Persephone.s Circle. Discussion of the present proposed device. Generally agreed that it is not liked as drawn. Aramanthra: directed the Polaris Herald to come up with an improved advice using the same pomegranate charge. Aramanthra: I want to see three potential versions of the device in two weeks.

2. Fina: brought up a discussion of why it is an order. Fina and Tarrach didn.t close it during their reign but did discuss it with those who have it. They decided they wanted it to go with chivalry and service similar to the Rose, but it hasn.t happened. Fina: The original direction of the order doesn.t seem to be followed. Aramanthra: The perception they have from the people is that they don.t care if it even exists. Is this a junior Rose? Our feeling is don.t close the order, its pointless; it will go away when we become kingdom. It will become the Order of the Rose, as this is the society wide order. The Middle is the only one who keeps this as a peerage order. Fina: this doesn.t come with a patent. Aramanthra: The Circle needs to become automatic or exclude it.

B. Principality Trailer

1. The trailer has been junked and will soon be out of Giovanna.s garage. Niklos: I will have someone come and tow it and the Principality will reimburse them for it.

2. Moira: The trailer is being written off the books as of Dec. 31. Can we make it go away because of title situation?

C. Principality Pavilion

1. Niklos: Why don.t we write off the pavilion? Aramanthra: let us not continue it as an internal Principality debt. Niklos: I want you (Moira) to put it in the Northwatch that this is not a debt. Aramanthra: We.re going to write it off as paid and not promote dag sales for its purchase but as a fundraiser. Niklos: I will state that we are forgiving Northshield.s debt to itself since it is actually paid.

2. Niklos: do we need the pavilion? Discussion - Good presence, helpful at a lot of events. It is the same size of tent we use to rent every year at Pennsic, which cost $600 per year. Discussion of the advantages of using a Grimm.s tent. Consensus that the pavilion is more trouble than it is worth. Aramanthra: Looking at the continuous inconvenience due to storage, upkeep, and where will it get stored at any given time. Will it be taken care of and stored properly. It needs 4 people to move it. Need no less than 6 to put it up. Tatiana: The canvas has limited life and the black paint really shortens it. I suggest we use it until it dies. Vlad: Wouldn.t it be better to get rid of it now? Moira: it has been a pain since we.ve gotten it. Storage problem, storage costs. Raito: The real importance of it is at Pennsic. After we become a kingdom, what we do at Pennsic will change and our needs will be different. Moira: What if we say that we are selling it to recoup our losses? Aramanthra: I would be just as happy to give it to Schattentor as they use it for their big event, Quest for Camelot. Other than that it gets used at Pennsic and WW.

3. Moira: We have no liability insurance on it. If something happens at an event, if it collapses and a tent pole hits someone, it is not covered. Moira: What we were told at the exchequers symposium is that the society.s insurance policy does not cover any material. Aramanthra: The society policy is personal liability insurance only. Moira: The SCA does not want to own property. Vlad: The present waiver doesn.t really mean anything. The waiver only protects provided that all the rules are followed. Niklos: Maybe we should junk the pavilion. The consensus decision was made to just make the books state that it is paid in full. Will table discussion on what to do with it for future discussion.

D. Restructuring the Iron Watch

1. Aramanthra: we.re going to be controversial on this. Niklos: What happened to the constables and sheriffs? Aramanthra: what bothers me is that when you close an order / award you have just told each and every person in that order that it means nothing. Fina: to reopen these orders you only have to change one work in the law in two spots. Niklos/Aramanthra: this is what we thought, what will the perception be of those two orders having been closed to reopen it again? We will consider this a fait accompli. Niklos: you don.t even have to be in the Principality to receive the present award. Aramanthra: we.re not going to take anything away from anyone, we.re not going to close or dissolve or rename the order. It will be published and recognized as Iron Watch. The main point is I would rather see it re-named officially.

2. There is now a new mandate and/or definition for the Iron Watch. You can get it for prowess, authenticity or service. This will also mean that everyone who is a sheriff or constable will grandfather into the Iron Watch.

3. You can become a Commander of the Iron Watch if you have two or more these stated qualities . prowess and authenticity, service and prowess, etc. Service within Northshield, prowess within Northshield and authenticity. It will not be for two different forms of martial arts. This will be an inclusive / not exclusive order. Raito: I had the same concerns. We needed to find some way of bringing the sheriffs and constables back. As part of going kingdom we can look at establishing some kind of precedence between the orders. People don.t seem to be averse to ranking the orders. Aramanthra: this would or could incorporate a structure that could be renamed or restructured to kingdom. The only question is what do we do to avoid creating offense.

4. How many are presently in the Iron Watch . can we look at that to get definitive numbers? Then we can start looking at the idea of the people in the Iron Watch looking to their members for recommendations for the order. They can make the recommendation for someone to be the commander. Clarification: none of these will convey anything as far as precedence towards kingdom. Alasdair: Do you want people who are in the Iron Watch now automatically made commanders? Aramanthra: no. I think we are going to pick the initial commanders. Fina: I suggest a meeting with all of them. Raito: My thought is that we already have the Pyxis for authenticity and this is not the same thing. These are two different things. Aramanthra: people who will already be in the Iron Watch can be made a Commander of the Iron Watch and we will poll the order to advise us of others. Lewina: we will need to come to some agreement on wording to have it read into law and given to Curia. Aramanthra: Our goal is to read it into law at 12th night subject to Curia approval. Discussion to continue on Greater Officer list as to the wording. A person within the order is to be referred to as a Watchman.

E. Discussion of the role of the Monarchy and Stallari

1. If the Monarchy pushes something through the Stallari can change it in 6 months at the end of the reign. Tatiana: The way it is done in the Midrealm is that the reigns change and therefore, Curia has more control. Stallari does not have the same authority. Fina: The way the Stallari officer gets power is to go through the corresponding Kingdom officer. Alasdair: Alot of people in Northshield think the Stallari has a lot more power than they do. Aramanthra: it can also happen that the entire Stallari could be boneheaded. Moira: the perception is that it is not the Royalty making the mistakes, it.s the Stallari.

F. Regalia

1. Vlad: Had a discussion on cost of Kingdom regalia with Thomas. He would donate all but the material costs but would recommend Jurgen for the manufacture. Niklos: Northshield has many artisans to refer this to. Fina: as soon as we have a date for kingdom status we will get people to volunteer for regalia. Lets table this to next time.

V. LLH - tabled

VI. Seneschal

A. Northshield Annual Report

1. Lewina: We need to set a deadline on this. The report should state what has been done, our expenses, a state of the union type statement done yearly after the Domesday. This information could then be taken for publication. The populace does not understand the financial situation, the financial commitment of the officers, how much is spent to be a principality, if we want this done we need to set deadlines. Aramanthra: this would be a 13th issue of the Northwatch to report the state of the Principality and should include each officer report. This should include a breakdown of expenses for each officer, a summarization of the job from anyone who reaches into their pocket for the expenses of the Principality. Each Lesser Officer that has expenses, etc should report under the Greater Officer report.

2. Moira: when we go kingdom the expenses of the lesser officers will need to be addressed. Niklos: this should be put down as a written policy. Aramanthra: this is a separate report from the Domesday. I would like to target March for publication. Lewina: We need a deadline for the officers to turn in a report. Moira: suggest after the tax season due to people itemizing their taxes. Ravenna: Suggest Feb. 1st.

3. The decision was for all Greater Officers to talk to their Lesser Officers and deputies and get it together by 2/1/02 to allow publication in March as a separate issue. Moira: do we want future expenses after going kingdom to be included? Consensus yes.


1. Lewina: Has talked to Marwen ( KEG Committee Chairperson) and they are trying to exchange documents. Marwen will be sending Marisela some spreadsheets. Lewina also needs a copy of the official mandate so that it can be published. Aramanthra: Marwen gave us the approved mandate and it will be published on the KEG website.

VII. Exchequer

A. Report . see report

B. Candidates

1. Moira has stated in the Northwatch that she will be stepping down at Coronet with a deadline for applicants as of March 1st.

2. Aramanthra: has there been any expression of interest? Discussion of potential applicants.

3. Vlad: Regarding regionals, I have heard that people aren.t applying because they think there are more qualified people than themselves. Moira: Regionals don.t have to do reports. Fina: I get a lot of the same thing. They don.t think they are qualified.

C. Information table

1. Moira: Do we want new Kingdom handbooks or not. Should we order them from corporate? Tatiana: think we should get someone to take the job before we decide this. If a person is looking for a book they can find it. Vlad: What about a merchant doing it? Moira: It doesn.t work for merchant to do this as it takes away from what they are trying to sell.

VIII. Chronicler

A. Report .

1. This issue of Northwatch is still open until Monday for submissions.

B. Discussion and vote on increase of Northwatch subscriptions

1. Ravenna: Thought $1.25 per issue would work but then after discussion agrees with $1.50 per issue. Consensus is $1.50. Moved, seconded and approved.

2. This will be put in the Northwatch. Target date will be in the next Northwatch with the effective date of Feb. 1st, for new subscriptions and renewals. Any renewals after Feb. 1st will be at the new rate.

3. Agreement that the Northwatch will have to continue as first class mail.


A. Report

1. A & S went well at Boars Head. All credit goes to Melisande of Caer Anterth Mawr. She did all of the setup and it was very well done.

X. Marshal (presented by Vlad)

A. Domesday report for the Principality

1. Vlad: So far the Incipient Shire of Trewint and possibly the College of Svaty Sebesta are the only groups in danger of suspension. The seneschal of the College of Svaty Sebesta has offered to do the report.

B. Report over the rapier experiment, side sword

1. This is a new combat form. Although similar to rapier, it will be a distinct hybrid of armored and rapier. Combatants wear more armor and slashing attacks are used. Practitioners must study the period manuals and use period techniques. This is experimental at the Society level and the Midrealm has joined the experiment.

C. Stepping Down at 12th night

D. Lesser Officers . No new business

XI. Herald

A. Report . no report

XII. Chirurgeon

A. Master Chirurgeon Guidelines for Northshield

1. Tatiana: The guidelines for Master Chirurgeon are in place and all Master Chirurgeons are being asked what they think them. Master Chirurgeons in the Middle take Pennsic into account for this training and decision in a big way.

2. Aramanthra: legally qualified people aren.t applying, as they have to apprentice to someone far less skilled.

3. Tatiana will put a letter in the Northwatch that you don.t have to accept a Chirurgeon.s help and to discuss the purpose of the Chirurgeon and the Chirurgeon reports. Aramanthra: minimally we need the date, time, person and the name of the person who refused treatment. Tatiana: Chirurgeons don.t want to practice on people. The injured person and the Chirurgeon both have to understand that the person doesn.t have to accept their help. Aramanthra: regarding Northwatch reports . no one reads the officer reports except for what they are really interested in and people might miss this. Moira: how much of the training of the apprentice is with the Chirurgeon and how much they can do within the mundane and SCA laws. Tatiana: the training with a Chirurgeon is to understand how first aid applies to SCA. For example, armor could be used as splint, how to remove a corset when someone is choking. A Chirurgeon probably shouldn.t remove someone from the field, but should do it with the coordination of the marshal. There is a process for the apprentices.

B. Status of the Chirurgeonate SCA wide

1. This is at the BOD legal committee right now.

C. Injuries:

1. Discussion of two incidences of fighting related injuries.

XIII. Next Meeting . Fighters School Feb. 23rd . the evening of the event

Posted by: Marisela the Vintner Council Secretary on 12/9/2001